Congressman Ted W. Lieu, serving in his fifth term in Congress (2015-2023), represents California‘s 36th Congressional District in the US House of Representatives. He is also the Vice Chair of the Democratic Caucus. Congressman Lieu grew up in Ohio and later attended Stanford University, where he received a degree in computer science and a degree in political science. He then earned a law degree from Georgetown University Law Center. He is also a veteran with experience in active duty and in the Reserve for the Air Force. He retired from the Reserve in 2021 with the rank of Colonel. Congressman Lieu received numerous medals for his outstanding military service, including two Meritorious Service Medals. I had the honor of interviewing Congressman Lieu on April 5th.
(This interview has been slightly revised. This article has been reviewed and approved by Congressman Lieu.)
Ziran (Rachel) Yuan (Reporter for the Ridge Devil’s Advocate): Congressman Lieu, you were born in Taiwan and immigrated to the US with your family at the age of 3. Can you speak a bit about your childhood?
Congressman Ted Lieu: When my family came here, we were very poor. We were living in the basement of a person’s home. My parents went to flea markets, selling gifts and jewelry to make ends meet. After several years, they opened a gift and jewelry store in a shopping center. They worked hard, 7 days a week and saved up their money. They eventually expanded over six stores and my brother and I would help watch them. Eventually, I realized they had achieved the American dream. They went from being poor to having a home and giving my brother and I an amazing education. My brother is now a doctor. One reason I joined the US Air Force is to try my best to give back to America.
ZY: You served in the US Air Force for 25 years. How has your experience shaped your view of War?
Congressman Lieu: As a veteran, I‘m not opposed to war. But I am opposed to stupid wars and wars that we cannot win. That is why I supported the former President, Donald Trump, when he called to withdraw our troops from Afghanistan. I also supported the current President, Joe Biden, who completed the withdrawal. My view is that we‘ve been in Afghanistan for over 20 years and if we can‘t win in Afghanistan after being there for 20 years, we‘re not going to win, say, in another 30 years.
ZY: What are some considerations that lawmakers should take into account when making decisions related to foreign policy and national security?
Congressman Lieu: We should always be very cautious at any time we try to use military force because there are often unintended consequences. And oftentimes, the issue is not if our military can succeed because our military is amazing. The question is what happens the day after our military wins. How do you make sure you can keep the peace, then? How do you make sure you have a stable government? Afghanistan is a great example. Our military is very good at winning battles but the challenge in Afghanistan has been establishing a stable government. Unfortunately, this goal has not been achieved.
ZY: What did you learn in the military that you can apply to everyday life outside of politics?
Congressman Lieu: I learned that teamwork is very important as well as competence and responsibility. If you‘re given a task to do something, you complete it and then you have to be accountable for completing them.
ZY: You’re the vice-chair of the Democratic Caucus. It’s the highest position any Asian-American has achieved in Congress. It‘s so impressive that you were able to rise to this position so fast. Can you tell me more about your journey to get here?
Congressman Lieu: There is a very simple principle that’s not very easy to put into action. Basically, you just help other members of Congress. That sounds very easy but it’s not actually that simple. For example, I‘m going to attend an Asian-American roundtable with another Congressman in his district. For me to do that, it’s a lot more complicated than just going there. I have to pay for a plane ticket, stay in a hotel and get transportation there and back. All this costs money and time. Although we all understand the importance of helping others, it’s easier said than done.
ZY: I have some questions about public policy. I read that you‘re advocating for legislation to establish an AI regulatory commission. You also serve on the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology. In your view, how should lawmakers address concerns about AI and ensure that it is developed and used in a way that benefits society?
Congressman Lieu: I am currently working on legislation to create a bipartisan commission of experts who will advise Congress on the regulation of artificial intelligence. As a computer science major, I am amazed at what AI can do. It has benefited, and will continue to benefit society. However, AI can also harm us. I want to make sure we can harness its benefits while minimizing its harms.
ZY: What kind of regulations on AI would you think is necessary?
Congressman Lieu: I’ll give you an example. If your cell phone malfunctions, it‘s not going 65 miles per hour. But if a car in automated driving mode malfunctions, it could kill you. Last November, a Tesla in automated driving mode suddenly stopped in a tunnel in San Francisco and caused a multi-vehicle accident injuring nine people. This shows why we should regulate AI that is used in vehicles, airplanes, and other moving objects. Additionally, AI can be exploited to spread disinformation, launch cyberattacks, and used for other malicious purposes. Therefore, we should take steps to mitigate these risks by regulating the development and use of AI.
While I don‘t think it‘s possible to stop technology, you can certainly regulate it. My view is that we should develop regulations that enable AI to continue to assist society, while also addressing potential risks and harms.
ZY: Another policy-related question is about the China Initiative. What are your thoughts on this policy?
(Note: The China Initiative is a program launched by the US Department of Justice in 2018 that was meant to counter perceived national security threats posed by China. The government was accused of economic espionage and intellectual property theft. It was canceled in 2022.)
Congressman Lieu: Firstly, it is clear that espionage is happening and we need to stop it. However, this danger is not limited to China, but also many other countries, including Russia and Iran. Despite the threats posed by Russia, there is no Russia Initiative. Similarly, there is no Iranian Initiative. A major issue with the China Initiative is that the Department of Justice began bringing cases with little evidence against professors who were Asian-American. All professors publish their work publicly, and none of these professors’ work was classified. So it‘s hard to see how it posed a threat to national security. The Department of Justice never provided a good explanation for these cases, and in a meeting with some Congressmen, including me, one Department of Justice official admitted that it really wasn’t a national security matter. While it is possible that some of the professors targeted under the China Initiative may have committed other violations of the law, such as tax fraud, that is not a national security issue.
In many cases, the evidence against these professors was so thin that the Department of Justice immediately lost these cases in court. In one case, a federal judge ruled that even when looking at all the evidence in the most favorable light for the prosecution, no rational jury could conclude that the professor violated the law. The Department of Justice almost never gets one of those rulings. It is a pretty embarrassing thing for federal prosecutors because their conviction rate is well above 95%. Usually if you‘re indicted by federal prosecutors, you‘re in deep trouble. Except under the China initiative. I believe that many of the professors they accused wouldn’t have been accused if their last name had been Smith.
ZY: How can we prevent the implementation of future programs like the China Initiative?
Congressman Lieu: First, we must remain vigilant that they don’t try to implement a program similar to this in another way. For example, if no Chinese-American professors receive grants, that‘s a problem. Or if other professors, because of their last name, started to not get the funding that they should from all these federal agencies, that would be a problem.
Of course, we also have to fight discrimination. For example, in Congress, we passed the COVID-19 Hate Crimes Act. I was a co-sponsor of that bill, which was written by Congresswoman Grace Meng. It provides additional resources to our federal and state governments to help counter crimes against Asian Americans and other minority groups. In addition, we saw a number of civil rights groups and other non-profits get engaged to push back against hate crimes. We saw a number of demonstrations across America when all the anti-Asian hate was happening. I remember them in my local area and they were happening all over the place. That was something we didn‘t see before. There are a lot of other changes happening. We have the highest number of Asian American members of Congress in US history, and our population has seen tremendous growth. Since 2000, the Asian American and Pacific Islander communities have more than doubled in size. According to the Pew Research Project, Asian Americans are projected to become the largest immigrant group in America by 2045. In California where I live, Asian Americans are already the second-largest ethnic group. We‘re seeing a rise in our population not just in places like California, New Jersey, or New York, but also in presidential swing states like Georgia and Nevada.
Now both political parties pay attention to the AAPI community in a way they‘ve never done before, and that is very good. I believe that if all of this had been happening in World War II, Japanese Americans would not have been rounded up and placed in camps. We are in a different time, but we‘re going to see, in my view, continuing discrimination. For example, Congresswoman Judy Chu was recently accused of disloyalty by a Texas Republican Congressman. But a difference you’ll notice is that no other Republicans joined in the accusation. In fact, a senior Republican, Mike Gallagher, appeared on national TV to push back and said that it was wrong and that no one should be accusing anyone of disloyalty without evidence.
ZY: This is my last question. What message would you deliver to youth?
Congressman Lieu: Pursue your dreams. As far as I can tell, you only live once. If you don‘t pursue your dream in this lifetime, I know of no other lifetime in which you can do that. That would be my best advice.