Meet Chief Petty Officer William Campbell who served in the US Navy. He served on a gunboat in Korea during the Korean War and after leaving the Navy, he also served in the Merchant Marines. He held a very high position in the navy as Chief Petty Officer which is one of the senior non-commissioned ranks. He now is retired and lives in Menlo Park, New Jersey. I met him while volunteering and he was kind enough to agree to an interview. As someone fascinated with US history, being able to interview him on April 22nd was a real treat!

 

Ziran (Rachel) Yuan (Reporter for the Ridge Devil’s Advocate): What were your feelings going into the Navy?

CPO William Campbell: I was proud and excited to embark on a new adventure in my life. I had heard a lot about the Navy and wanted to give it a try. While the commitment was for four years, I chose to join voluntarily rather than being drafted. One of the things I had heard was that the Navy had good food, and it turned out to be true.

The first meal I had was a steak. I was in line with the other recruits, waiting to be served. I had never eaten steak before so I ordered my steak the same as the guy in front of me. However, when I got to my table and started eating, I realized that I couldn’t eat it because it was too rare.

 

ZY: How did your family, particularly your parents, feel about you joining the military?

CPO Campbell: My father was happy and supportive, but my mother was sad because I was her youngest son. She didn’t want me to go. However, my father saw it as an opportunity to help me grow and become a man. He said that I needed to do something with my life, and if I didn’t want to stay in school, I had to go somewhere.

I didn’t want to stay in school. I was a young man and wanted to run the streets. My father told me that I had to go serve my country and couldn’t stay at home anymore because I was too old. So, I decided to join the Navy at the age of 17 and a half. My father signed the paperwork because I wasn’t 18 yet, and I submitted it to the Navy. My first assignment was in New London, Connecticut. My boot camp was there and then I also went to Maryland.

After I joined the Navy, I was stationed in New London, Connecticut where I was involved in submarine rescue. I worked on a rescue ship called the “Kittiwake” which had divers on board and chambers for the “bends.” We learned how to operate the chambers and other equipment. It was a very interesting experience.

Later, I was transferred to Norfolk, Virginia which was my first time being in the south. Unfortunately, it was a very racist place at the time. I remember stopping in Delaware to grab a hamburger and when I tried to order, they told me I couldn’t eat inside and brought my food out in a bag. That was the first time I experienced prejudice like that. The guy asked me for the money and I told him I wasn’t going to pay if I couldn’t eat inside. He threatened to call the police, so I left the store and headed to the railroad station where I was going to catch a train to Norfolk. When I got to the train station, I went to the shore patrol for help. They prevented me from being locked up.

 

ZY: Was there racism in the Navy as well?

CPO Campbell: Unfortunately, yes. The Navy was also racist. People would call you derogatory names for no reason. I even got into a fight with a guy once because he kept using a racial slur towards me. The captain told me that I had to be a man and accept it instead of fighting over words.

I remember meeting John F. Kennedy when he was an officer aboard our ship. I wanted to become a diver, but they told me no and assigned me to be a steward instead. They didn’t let you be what you wanted to be. A steward’s job meant waiting on the officers and doing other things. The majority of officers were white. There were no black officers when I first joined. It wasn’t until I was leaving the Navy that I met some black officers.

I experienced a lot of racism even when I was in uniform. For example, we were made to ride in the back of the bus. It was really frustrating. The only place we could go to was called Church Street in Norfolk, Virginia. They had bars and other things that catered to black people, but even there we were harassed by white officers.

At one point, I wanted to get discharged and they sent me to a psychiatrist who told me to give it a chance. I did, and I ended up meeting a few guys who were really nice to me. Since I wanted to be a diver, they let me dive a couple of times with the gear. However, during one of those dives, I got stuck in the mud and almost died. They then told me that I couldn’t dive anymore. That incident almost killed me and made me realize how fragile life can be, especially when you’re 18 and not thinking of death.

 

ZY: When were you sent to Korea?

CPO Campbell: I believe it was around 1953. I remember it was in November, but they didn’t give us much notice. They just told us that we had to go.

At the time, I was working as a steward, but I didn’t like the job at all. Eventually, they made us gunners on a 20 millimeter, similar to Dori Miller who shot down Japanese planes during Pearl Harbor.

 

ZY: Did you enjoy being a gunner?

CPO Campbell: No, I didn’t like it at all. I didn’t want to kill anyone.

Instead, I started working with one of the chaplains named Chaplain Rue. I helped him go to different guys and even learned how to do some medical work. If anyone was wounded, I knew how to patch them up. I did different jobs and tasks just to stay in the Navy.

Over time, I started to love my time in the Navy. I spent several years in the service, and when I got out, I joined the Merchant Marines. I worked as an escort in New York and eventually got into the Merchant Marines. I stayed in the Merchant Marines for a while because I loved serving in the military.

 

ZY: Did you make friends with anyone in the Navy?

CPO Campbell: Yes, I made friends with different people in the Navy. Some of the officers took a liking to me, like Lieutenant Greenberg. They knew that I was struggling with depression due to the racism I faced, and they advised me to stay strong and pray.

I also had some people stick up for me because the Navy was so racist. As a young man, I didn’t know that the military was like that, and it hurt me tremendously. But eventually, you get used to it. Every time we went on the bus we had to get in the back. It hurt me, and I wondered why I had to fight for this country that treated me like this.

 

ZY: How did Lieutenant Greenberg help you deal with racism in the Navy?

CPO Campbell: Lieutenant Greenberg used to talk to me and offer words of encouragement. He told me that this was the way the world was at the time, but that things would change. He advised me to stay strong, and he helped me a lot.

I was fortunate to have good people around me, including some officers who would give me some time off when I was feeling down. The racism hurt me deeply, especially when I experienced it in Delaware and New Jersey. I remember eating with some white kids, and they told me that I couldn’t eat there and had to take my food out, and then they still wanted me to pay for it. It was painful.

I know that racism still exists today, even if it’s not as bad as it used to be. Whether you’re Asian or Black, there will always be people who don’t like you. You have to be strong and ignore them. I find that even in my current surroundings, I still experience racism. Some people still live in the past, and it’s hard to get over it.

 

ZY: How did the other black soldiers deal with discrimination and racism?

CPO Campbell: Black soldiers felt bad and faced various forms of discrimination. For instance, when making phone calls, the people who monitor the calls would ask who they were calling and lock them up if they didn’t answer the question. Additionally, I accidentally drank from the wrong water fountain in Norfolk, Virginia, and was almost locked up for it. We also had to go around the side of restaurants to get food and were only served through a window. Despite this, I was always proud of my uniform. It wasn’t easy dealing with discrimination and racism, but I learned to accept it as part of my life. My wife also faced discrimination while we were in Georgia, which was very sad. Even after leaving the Navy, people didn’t give us the respect that we deserved.

 

ZY: What about when you were in the Korean War? Was racism better or worse compared to Virginia?

CPO Campbell: It was better, and the people were more friendly and treated us nicer. However, there was still racism from the Marines. They would make nasty remarks and call us names, and we would end up fighting them. It was sad to see the way they treated black soldiers over there. I went through a lot of racism, which I didn’t expect to experience in the Navy.

 

ZY: What kind of things would the Marines say to you?

CPO Campbell: They would say nasty things that I cannot repeat. We never got along with the Marines because of the racist remarks they made towards black soldiers. It was tough to deal with. Some guys ended up committing suicide because of the way we were treated as black soldiers.

 

ZY: Did anyone fight back against the discrimination?

CPO Campbell: I fought back a lot. It was very hurtful sometimes, but you had to take it. My son used to tell me to write a book, but I said no because I’ve been through too much, and I didn’t want to bring back all the old memories.

One day, the officers wanted us to show some people around the boat. They picked all the black guys for that tour. But one officer told us not to worry about it. They treated us like second-class citizens, believe me.

 

ZY: How were your relations with the Koreans during the war?

CPO Campbell: The Korean people were very friendly. They often told us, “This is not your war,” but they treated us kindly. We always tried to treat people well wherever we went. They would invite us to their homes and different events. They treated us with respect. I loved the kids. We would spend time with them and even give them gifts.

 

ZY: Do you think racism has gotten better in the military?

CPO Campbell: Yes, I do see change. As I was leaving, I met a black guy who had just come from the academy. They said later on he became an admiral. It has come a long way. But at the time, it was sad and it hurt a lot. When I was young, I never experienced stuff like that. But it made a man out of me.

 

ZY: And what advice would you give to young people who want to join the navy or the military?

CPO Campbell: It’s the best experience in your life that will ever happen, and it will make a better person out of you, whether you are a man or a woman.

 

ZY: Do you think that racism and discrimination have gotten better over the years?

CPO Campbell: Yes, and that is through education. But we still have a long way to go. And I think the next generation is going to change everything. I never thought I’d live to see a black president, never in my lifetime. I saw President Obama as the president of the United States, and I’m proud to have lived long enough to see that. America is the greatest country in the world.